Thinking Out Loud - Ms. Green

Commentaries from a female, conservative Christian worldview. Intermittent observations on human behavior and current events. Occasional bursts of personal tirades,confessions, and discoveries. Frequent discussions about my "Narrow-Minded Faith".

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Sunday, September 3, 2006

The Lie that is Calvinism - Part I

Some wrongly teach that "election" means God predestined some to be saved and some to be damned. Those that teach this say that God's Grace is irresistable and we can't turn him down - like robots that have been pre-programed. Preachers of this heresy are often caustic and hateful with their message. A case in point is Fred Phelps. He's a perfect example of someone whose gospel is a false gospel of hate rather than love. He actually says God hates homosexuals rather than the truth - which is that God hates the SIN of homosexuality.

The Bible, however, teaches us that man has free will to make his own choices.

Scripture always speaks better than any human being, so I have listed what Scripture says about salvation being offered to all.

(Caps are my emphasis)

"And he is the propitiation for our sins; and NOT FOR OURS ONLY, but also for the sins OF THE WHOLE WORLD."
I John 2:2

"God hath dealt to EVERY MAN the measure of faith." Romans 12:3a

"For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13

"For God so loved THE WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son,
that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life
." John 3:16

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock; if ANY man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him." Revelation 3:20

"And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to ALL people." Luke 2:10

"I am the door: by me if ANY man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." John 10:9

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, WILL DRAW ALL MEN unto me." John 12:32

"He THAT REJECTETH me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken,the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48

"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to ALL men." Titus 2:11

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, but that all should come to repentence." II Peter 3:9

We can ALL accept Christ, or we can reject Him.We're not preprogrammed to do one or the other.

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At 6:16 PM, Blogger Brooke said...

Excellent post! By God's grace we are ALL saved, if we accept it. I don't understand the 'destiny' religions. Why bother? If you're predetermined to go to heaven/hell, then why not just do whatever while on Earth?

At 8:13 PM, Blogger nanc said...

He does know the beginning from the end.

how is your husband and his diagnosis, ms. green?

do you follow paul proctor's teachings? if so, here's a blogsite he's joined:

if you don't, here's a blogsite he's joined:

yeah, yeah, i know i repeated myself, but he is trying to awaken the church to biblical teaching.

At 8:53 AM, Blogger Dyspraxic Fundamentalist said...

I agree, Ms Green.

At 12:57 PM, Blogger Timothy said...

Dear Ms. Green, please don't equate us to the likes of Reverend Phelps. Just because I'm a Calvinist, does not mean that I'm mean. It also doesn't mean that my views are heretical. I just don't believe that those who are dead in their tresspasses and sins can move towards God until He moves in us. God gets all the glory... not my will or anything in me.

But I'm sure you have heard it all before. The problem I have is that you are painting with the typical broad strokes of the brush. I am not a robot... When God moved, I did choose wilfully and joyfully to trust in His Son, but could not and would not until He moved in me first. That is the historic Calvinist position.

Even though we disagree, and you do not like my position, I am still your brother in the LORD, and count you as my sister in the LORD.

May the Lord richly bless you on HIS day tomorrow.

At 1:18 PM, Blogger Ms.Green said...

Hi Timothy,
Thanks for posting. I respect your right to disagree with me, but I believe you are disagreeing with Scripture as well. To say that you are a Calvinist, who believes that only by God's will can you choose to trust in Him is to also say that you are being controlled by God and have no free will - your choosing wilfully and joyfully is not your own choice but His, through irresistable grace. You are also saying by this that God creates men who have no chance to be saved and are damned to hell from the moment of their conception because He chooses not to "elect" them.

As for Fred Phelps, he is a five-point Calvinist and uses his doctrine to support his claim that "God hates fags". I am not suggesting that you would even consider doing likewise, but his is the natural progression of a doctrine that makes God the chooser of who goes to heaven or hell instead of what God really did, which is, He sovereignly chose to allow men free will to choose to accept or reject his free gift of salvation.
By saying that man has no free will is to make God the author of sin, which is a heresy.

I don't mean to come across harshly, but my convictions are such as they are, and I feel free to voice them on my site as I wish. What I won't do, though, is get into an online debate because that is not why I use this forum. Plus I hate to see Christians debate online or in a public forum because there are lost people all around us watching and listening.

I will be happy to continue this discussion through email if you'd like, or we can agree to disagree. Either way, I appreciate your input.

At 6:46 PM, Blogger D.Daddio Al-Ozarka said...

Isn't that the whole basis for the existence of anything? So that God could share all that love with whoever chooses it?

God gets ALL the glory when one of his precious, holy creations--though faced with temptations that appeal to his/her flesh--chooses God!

At 6:53 PM, Blogger Ms.Green said...

A big and exhuberant AMEN to that, Daddio. God DOES get the glory. Calvinists think that the notion that if we choose by faith to accept the salvation of the cross that it is somehow a work and takes away from God's sovereignty. Quite the opposite. God in His infinite awesome love sovereignly decreed our free will ability to accept or reject His free gift of salvation. If we reject Him, we have no one to blame but ourselves. If we accept Him, it is only by admitting that we can do nothing to save ourselves and are not worthy of heaven, so we throw ourselves at His mercy, beg forgiveness and ask Him to save us. And HE gets the glory!

At 12:51 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe all calvinists are not mean but we just recently had a pastor split our church apart because he was trying to reform us without telling us what his intentions were. He didn't reveal he was a five point calvinist when he came to our church. He was mean, he lied, he deceived us,and he was a dictator. How could someone who claimed to be a man of God, be so cruel? I don't understand how they justify the things they say and do.

At 10:13 AM, Blogger Ms.Green said...

Anon, I've never been through a church split, so I can't imagine the pain. I pray that God will heal, and that His will be done in this situation with this individual.

I personally believe that a 5 points Calvinist cannot be truly saved, because he is trusting in his election, not in Jesus Christ. He'll say that is not so, but I've known too many hard core Calvinists and have seen how they think, how they operate, and the caustic attitudes in which they do things.(Not saying that all who believe in this doctrine are such - for those of you I've discussed this with in private)

At 10:14 AM, Blogger Dave said...

A very good book refuting Calvinism is called, 'The Other Side of Calvinism' by Laurence Vance. I found most Calvinists taking that book out of context to hopefully keep people from buying it at Amazon.

Here was an argument I read that was taken from a debate from an Arminian against the Calvinist position. I do not have the book in front of me so this is from memory. The Calvinist was trying to prove that it is not unjust of God to pick some and not others for salvation. The Calvinist asked the Arminian:

Would you have a problem with me if I were a very wealthy man and decided to go to an orphanage to bring back only 3 babies to love and nourish even though I had enough money to buy all of them?

The Arminian said:

"No, I would not have a problem with you for doing that. The problem would only come when you get to the door to say to the babies left behind, "OK, Whosoever will come.""

Calvinism has too many verses that they have to rewrite in order to fit it in with their theology. They play word games with the word "all" and "whole world." They will read the context of some verse that clearly has "all" and "whole world" limited to either a certain group or nation and then force its meaning into ever that clearly contradicts them but will attempt to make their hearer duped into thinking that "all" and "whole world" will always be limited when it comes to the atonement and salvation. Terrible deception.

A foolish example would be me saying, "I have all the apples" and someone uses that quote to prove that I really didn't mean that I had every apple in the whole world but only some. It is clear by my sentence that I did not mean every apple in the whole world but this is the game Calvinists play. They will find a verse that clearly has the word "all" as being limited in scope in the context and then force it into every other verse in the Bible that contradicts them. John 3:16 has been altered to mean something else by them.

It is hilarious when they quote me the verse that says, "Christ gave his life a ransom for many" and will say to me, "See!! Christ said "many" and not all!!!" I then show them the parallel verse where it says, "Christ gave his life a ransom for all."

To prove that they are playing word games is by showing them Romans 5 where the Bible says, "MANY were made sinners." How many were made sinners in Adam?? Does "many" mean all or some in that verse? Calvinists are forced to admit that it means "all."

Calvinists claim that we were all given to Christ before the world began. The said that the "elect" were "in Christ" from the foundation of the world. They clearly do not understand election. As in the OT, people became a part of chosen Israel by being born into it. We today become part of that elect body by being born again into it. If the elect were "in Christ" before the foundations of the world then Paul didn't make much sense in Romans 16:7 when he said,

"Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ BEFORE ME."

How could they be "in Christ" before Paul if the elect were all in Christ from the foundations of the world?????

I can't believe I used to believe that bologna.

At 3:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have been dealing with a pastor of a primitive Baptist Church that holds strong to the Calvinism doctrine. He can't understand how I think that people are saved by the hearing of the word and that preaching is one way they hear.
I have sent him a bunch of studies of a lot of subjects including faith and grace. Praise God, because he keeps asking me questions. And I will take a few days and write up the answer and send it to him. The Holy Spirit is really bothering him.
He, like so many Calvinists, has never had an in depth study of the scriptures and so can't make the connection between grace and faith and the importance of preaching the word where ever you are at the time. To him stopping someone and asking them if they know Christ isn't necessary.
But lately since I have sent him God's teachings he has become bothered. I want him bothered! So everyone pray I study under the guidance of the Holy Spirit when he asks me a question.

At 3:29 PM, Blogger Ms.Green said...

Bob, I pray God uses you to show this preacher the truth. What a preacher he will be indeed once he DOES knowthe truth of grace!


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