Thinking Out Loud - Ms. Green

Commentaries from a female, conservative Christian worldview. Intermittent observations on human behavior and current events. Occasional bursts of personal tirades,confessions, and discoveries. Frequent discussions about my "Narrow-Minded Faith".

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Wednesday, November 12, 2008

Obama's New Spiritual Advisor?

Obama has said his faith is important to him. After learning more about his pastor of some 17 years, Jeremiah Wright, and now finding out who his spiritual adviser was during his campaign, it begs the question, just what is your faith all about?

For those who won't follow the link to the full story, here it is. Ms. Green's synopsis:

During the campaign, on multiple occasions, Obama sought "spiritual advice" (and I use that term loosely) from none other than Bishop Gene Robinson. Robinson is a professed homosexual who lives with his homosexual sex partner, and who was the first openly gay person elected as a bishop in the Episcopal church. His election was delayed due to an allegation that he had inappropriately touched another man and was affiliated with a Web site with links to porn, but in the end, the Episcopal General Convention approved his appointment by a vote of 62-45. He was elected while living unapologetically with a man in a sexual relationship, and they were "married" in a civil union in 2007, at which Robinson was quoted as saying, "I always wanted to be a June bride."

So Obama chose Robinson as his spiritual adviser during the campaign,

God help us. Obama is surrounding himself with terrorists, racists, socialists, sexual perverts and murderers. It's almost as though he wants to destroy this country...but surely not...after all, his worsh...er...his supporters say he alone offers hope. He is the "One".
Continue reading..

16 Comments:

At 8:59 PM, Anonymous Herm said...

Ms Green, I find this appalling. How much longer will God be able to withhold his wrath and begin judgment on our nation. Obama and those like him certainly represent the Anti-Christ spirit that has permeated our society and the Christian faith. Your earlier post on "False Christians" said it all. Glad you brought this to our attention. God Bless, Herm

 
At 8:09 PM, Blogger Mark said...

Oh, this is juicy! And, the first I've heard. I am about to write a series of articles about how Obama will attempt to change the Constitution, because, in his own words, it is "Fundamentally flawed".

He has already made it clear he will attack our right to free speech, but he is a little too fuzzy on the Establishment clause.

Perhaps he will try to convince us that gay priests are Godly.

 
At 11:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Homophobia masquerading as spirituality. Jesus was so outraged by homosexuality that he never bothered to mention it. He did say several things about not judging others though.

 
At 7:22 AM, Blogger Mark said...

Wahat a stupid comment! Hey, bonehead, Jesus never said anything about pedophilia, improper subway ettiquette, hacking other people's e-mail accounts, or posting porn on the internet either. Does that make it right?

And as far as judging...you don't even understand the Biblical definition of judging so you need to confine your remarks to things you actually know something about and leave the theology to those who believe in Christ.

 
At 10:13 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

>Jesus never said anything about pedophilia, improper subway ettiquette [sic], hacking other people's e-mail accounts, or posting porn on the internet either. Does that make it right?

No, it proves that you can arrive at reasonable conclusions about right and wrong without referring to supernatural help.

One implication is that scripture is inadequate to provide a moral basis. Another is that a truly omnipotent being WOULD have mentioned sins that didn't exist yet. His contemporaries wouldn't have understood but we would have. It would also have had the advantage of providing some proof of divinity. Still, you are left with the fact that, while pedophilia and homosexuality were rampant in Rome at the time, you are left with the fact that he didn't feel it was enough of a problem to mention it.

Did he say anything about calling people names?

>you don't even understand the Biblical definition of judging so you need to confine your remarks to things you actually know something about and leave the theology to those who believe in Christ.

So what is the "biblical" definition of judging? My dictionary tells me that it's "to pass legal judgment on; pass sentence on (a person)". Jesus seemed to think that even when a woman had been found guilty of prostitution, forgiveness was preferable to punishment.

But it seems that "forgiveness" has some strange meaning to you as well.

(Denying the conventional meanings of words without even offering a definition for discussion is both one of the oldest and one of the most bankrupt of bad debating tricks. But it's obvious that you aren't here to discuss anything, just shout down anyone you disagree with. But you are right about one thing. I do not understand how someone could espouse the gospel of Christ and act the way you do.)

 
At 2:06 PM, Anonymous Herm said...

Anon. You seem somewhat familiar with some Bible scripture. But I would like to clarify some important points. First, your view of scripture is what Christianity calls a world or fleshly view. All those outside the saving grace of Jesus Christ will have a such a view of scripture and Christianity. Only those who have excepted salvation through the shed blood of Christ can begin to fully understand Gods inherent truth, and this is a long journey. God is continually revealing new and wonderful insight into his word. This is the spiritual application rendered through and by the Holy Spirit, Gods way of communicating the fullest understanding of his word. Now, am I saying that God does not communicate his word to sinners? Certainly not! God profoundly speaks through his word to expose individuals to their sinfulness and therefore to their separation from him until they repent and receive salvation. Then and only then can we begin to receive the peace and love of Jesus Christ. I do hope you continue reading
God's word. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd of John speak of what I have attempted to share with you. Good reading. God Bless, Herm

 
At 2:23 PM, Blogger Mark said...

"No, it proves that you can arrive at reasonable conclusions about right and wrong without referring to supernatural help"

You didn't.

 
At 3:21 PM, Blogger Ms.Green said...

Anon,

Several things about your comments.

Christians understand that Jesus is God. God is a triune being, and therefore anything God the Father says or does is equally represented by Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. The Bible was inspired by God , who condemned homosexuality as an abomination. Jesus did not need to repeat what had already been established. His focus was on bringing salvation to the lost, not repeating what God had already established was sin. There are, however, numerous passages in the New Testament that do refer to the abomination of homosexuality.

As for the Biblical meaning of judging others, I wrote this in 2006 on judging:

The Most Misused Verse in All of Scripture

 
At 3:26 PM, Blogger Ms.Green said...

"...I do not understand how someone could espouse the gospel of Christ and act the way you do.)"

You know, anon, maybe Mark was a little harsh, but we Christians are so used to being attacked for our faith that sometimes it's hard not to want to retaliate. You have to admit that you came to my blog and did some name-calling and accusations yourself. One thing about Christians that the rest of the world doesn't understand is that we're human just like everyone else and we have feelings and emotions and likes and dislikes and we don't like being attacked and ridiculed any more than you do.

That's why salvation is available to all. It's not our "goodness" that gets us to heaven - it's what Jesus Christ did on the cross. He was punished for our sins so we could have an opportunity to get to heaven. If we had to earn our own way, none of us would meet God's standard.

 
At 5:40 PM, Blogger Mark said...

Judgment according to the Bible usually refers to punishment. There is a whole book devoted to the administration of Justice in the Old testament. It's called "Judges". Sampson was a judge. One of the judgments he issued was the wholesale slaughter of 10,000 Philistines with nothing but the jawbone of an ass.

Anon slays truth with the same weapon.

 
At 8:29 PM, Blogger David Wyatt said...

Ms.Green,

You said, "The Bible was inspired by God , who condemned homosexuality as an abomination. Jesus did not need to repeat what had already been established. His focus was on bringing salvation to the lost, not repeating what God had already established was sin."
Great insight! Thank you for this. God Bless you!

 
At 7:52 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

>You didn't.

Not if people burn in hell for all eternity for improper subway etiquette.

>Judgment according to the Bible...

Means the same thing it means in the dictionary. I guess you're going to tell me that "Let he who is without sin" means Christians can throw stones because their sins have been forgiven.

>with nothing but the jawbone of an ass.Anon slays truth with the same weapon.

Yeah, but in the bible "jawbone" means keyboard, "ass" means computer, and "truth" means people who think belief in a creator allows them to be hateful and insulting.

Hey, this is fun. Define this one:
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 
At 8:52 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

>As for the Biblical meaning of judging others, I wrote this in 2006 on judging:

I read it but, really, who cares? Nobody here is facing the fact that Christians trying to tell everybody else what to do is the main reason you get so much grief from the rest of us. If you kept to practicing your religion and did good works, nobody would bother you and most people would respect you. Heck, you might even win some converts. But instead the face of Christianity has become Dana Carvey's Church Lady character. A bunch of dismissive, insulting, self-righteous hypocrites who talk a lot about Jesus but act more like the Pharisees. In other words- Mark. An obviously angry little man who twists bible scripture around as justification to act in ways NOBODY would equate with Jesus. So worried about your money being rendered unto Caesar (for there your heart lies also), making other people’s children pray to your God in school (while not admitting that if it was somebody else doing that to your kids you’d be outraged), wanting your religious symbols placed in government buildings (ditto), saying your beliefs have the same force as science (so much for faith), worshiping graven images (even with the words “under God” I doubt Shadrack, Meshack, and Abednigo would have been comfortable with saying the pledge), and acting as if your guns are the same as your crosses (live by the sword, die by the sword). And all with the idea that if you are denied these intrusions then you are being persecuted and maintaining that it justifies you acting in patently unrighteous ways. Saying that Christians are “just human” allows you to forgive them but that forgiveness doesn’t extend to gays, or for that matter anyone who disagrees with you. Remember, being just human means you might also be wrong about all this.

I say unto you, unless your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees…

 
At 2:06 PM, Blogger Ms.Green said...

I read it but, really, who cares?

You mentioned judging others in your previous posts, and I was clarifying what that Scripture meant. If you don’t care, why did you bring it up?

Nobody here is facing the fact that Christians trying to tell everybody else what to do is the main reason you get so much grief from the rest of us.

You cannot logically point fingers at Christians and say we are trying to tell everybody else what to do, and that we exclusively are guilty of this. We base what we believe not on ourselves, but on God’s Word. God is the judge and the lawgiver, not us.

You have no God, or at least that is the impression you’ve given, so you are judge and lawgiver in your eyes.

When we differ, you think we’re wrong and judgmental. That is why we get grief.

Ultimately, it is not us that you have a problem with. It is the God we believe in. We could be the nicest people in the world, but if we say anything contrary to what you believe, or point out what God says is sin, you accuse us of being judgmental.

Mark should not have insulted you. It accomplished nothing. On his defense, it was a defensive move, not an offensive one. You are actually the one that started being insulting, not Mark.

You have been coming to my blog for quite sometime and have repeatedly engaged in judging, making condescending remarks, personal attacks, and name calling. If you recall, I’ve had to ban you on several occasions in the past for doing these things that you accuse me and other guests of doing.

Just a couple of more points to your rather lengthy comment.

We don’t advocate forcing anyone to pray. We simply claim the right to do so whenever and however we choose. The United States was founded on Christianity. You can argue against that, but it’s a fact. If you go to an Arab nation and try to take their faith out of the government, you’ll get a lot more serious consequences than what you get from Christians defending their faith. Our "religions symbols" as you call them, have been in government buildings since the founding of our country. It is the forced removal of these symbols that is the issue, not the placement of them. Prayer has been in our schools since the founding of this nation. It is the removal of these prayers that is the issue. Saying a pledge of allegiance to our country is not idolatrous. That's the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest such. So you don't believe in patriotism, I gather?

As for forgiveness, and you saying that forgiveness doesn’t extend to gays, that is incorrect. God forgives all sin – if the confession and repentance is sincere. Unrepentant sin is not forgiven.

From this point, I will not tolerate any personal attacks from you, Mark, or anyone else. I don’t want it on my blog. I tried to give a little free reign without moderation and it tends to quickly get out of hand. I’ve seen too many blogs turn into ad hominem attack fests, and it’s not going to escalate to that here.

And as an afterthought – if you have trouble with guns, by all means be defenseless. I happen to believe I have a right to defend myself, and that the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution guarantees that right.

History shows that when governments take away the right to bear arms, people are exterminated by their governments.

Remember, being just human means you might also be wrong about all this.

I’m so sure of my faith that I’m willing to die for it. I’m betting my eternity on it.

 
At 5:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, forgive me.

So far I've seen you use scripture to justify judgementalism, hate, piety, and retribution. And you keep saying that I do it too (and making it a little bigger every time) as if that justifies you doing it.

You even compare yourself to Muslim theocracies to show that you aren't as bad as you could be.

And that's the sticking point. You don't seem to realize that the founding fathers specifically tried to prevent collusion between religious and secular power because they knew exactly what would happen if religious people got control of the government. They had seen it happen first hand and they were students of history so they knew that it always seems to happen. And everything I've seen here shows how much they were right. This is not a theocracy and with any luck it will stay that way. We've seen what 8 years your kind of leader is good for.

The very fact that you'll do everything an unbeliever will do as soon as provoked proves that, for all your self-righteousness, you're no better than unbelievers. By their fruits etc. And yet you continue to obsess over the mote in my eye. Your religion strikes me not as a plan for improving yourself but a justification for acting however you want. I don't have a problem with your God (there may be a God, but yours is obviously a product of your imagination), I have a problem with how you act in His name.

You admit that you've done no better than I have, yet you cling to the idea that something you believe makes you superior and want to tell everyone else what to do.

And even you know that a gun is a better defense than your God.

Now why would I think that's a little disingenuous?

 
At 8:45 PM, Blogger Ms.Green said...

Anon,

I have to ask you after this comment to refrain from multiple topics within a single comment. You cover too much ground at a time, which ties me up trying to answer all your points instead of doing other things.

Also, I want to ask you to do something else for me. Explain to me why you come here and post your comments. Until you give me a valid explanation, I will not publish you here anymore. My blog. My prerogative.

I did not start this blog so that people could come here uninvited and attack everything I say. I welcome differing points of view, but I do not welcome antagonistic behavior.

On your points:

You’ve accused me of using Scripture to justify judgmentalism, hate, piety and retribution. Give me specifics. Give the date of the posts and exactly what I said that justifies this accusation.

Keep in mind that if Scripture says something is wrong, my repeating that is not judgmentalism.

Keep in mind that I have publicly stated on this blog that I hate no one and I condemn hate.

As for piety, the definition means to be devout in ones religion. I don’t consider that a bad thing to be devout to my faith in Christ.

Retribution? Only God has that power ultimately. I don’t have a clue how that applies to me. Again – give me specific instances here when you accuse me of something.

I’m happy to compare Muslim theocracies with the freedoms of the USA. There’s no comparison. In Iran you would be considered an infidel and could very likely be killed for it. In the US, atheism is tolerated as much as any other religion – maybe more so.

I’m not going to argue about our founding fathers intentions about this being a Christian nation. I’ve covered that ground, and so have multitudes of others.

As for carrying a gun, that has nothing to do with my trusting God. Men have free will given to them by God. It would be stupid for me to stand in the middle of the Interstate at night and not expect to be hit because God would protect me. God gave me common sense. How I exercise my free will and common sense affects what happens to me. How others use their free will, if their intent is evil, also affects me.

There is nothing disengenuous about wanting to protect myself and my loved ones from evil.

I want to focus on something you said toward the end of your comments. You said “…you’re no better than unbelievers.”

You hit the nail on the head, anon! Christians are NOT any better than unbelievers. Praise God that you understand that! God said that there are “none good …no, not one.” He said that we “all fall short of the glory of God.” I’m a sinner. I deserve hell. My sin is an affront to God’s holiness. It is only because Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins that I get to go to heaven. Not because I’m super-Christian. Not because I love my family, or have raised my kids right, or given to charity, or prayed for others, or go to church, or sing specials, or blog about my faith. Nothing I or anyone else can do is good enough for a holy, perfect God. Should Christians be kinder, work harder, be more forgiving, and less selfish than the rest of the world? YES. Is our salvation a license to sin? Paul said “God forbid”! Do we screw up sometimes? Yes.

Knowing what I know, that only Jesus Christ can save anyone from hell, does not make me superior. It makes me want to tell everyone I know, so they can escape eternal suffering away from God. Call me what you will, but my God loves you as much as He loves me or anyone else. He doesn’t show favoritism. But until someone admits their guilt and realizes they can’t get to heaven on their own, and puts their faith in Jesus Christ as their one and only Savior and way to heaven, they are headed for hell. I don’t like it. I wish it were different, but that’s the way it is. I would be hateful if I DIDN’T tell others.

Again. Explain to me why you come here and comment. If it is only because you hate me and what I say, then please go find someone else’s blog who thinks like you do. I’m not going to change my mind and I’m not going to quit defending my faith.

 

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