Thinking Out Loud - Ms. Green

Commentaries from a female, conservative Christian worldview. Intermittent observations on human behavior and current events. Occasional bursts of personal tirades,confessions, and discoveries. Frequent discussions about my "Narrow-Minded Faith".

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007

Soulforce Founder Remarks on Jerry Falwell's Death

The founder of the gay activist group Soulforce, Mel White, who calls himself a “Reverend”, and who represents those who call themselves “gay Christians”, was recently interviewed on his thoughts about Jerry Falwell. He had this to say about Falwell’s death.

“I knew there would be just a huge hole in Virginia and in Lynchburg, and I felt for those people. But at the same time I was feeling more strongly that now we'll never have a chance for Jerry Falwell to say, "I was wrong. I did wrong, and I said wrong, and I'm sorry. God creates gay people and loves them just like she created them. I'm not going to say anything more against gay people because I was wrong."
Imagine the consequence that would have had for so many people. Falwell was the face of homophobia."

No Mel, Falwell was the face of conservative Christian, Biblical values. God is not a “she” and Falwell could have lived to be a hundred years old and I’m confident he would never have said “I was wrong…God creates gay people…”

Falwell did not hate homosexuals. He did preach against the sin. He preached against all sin for that matter.

God does not create alcoholics. Nor does he create adulterers, child molesters, murderers, or bank robbers. God does not create homosexuals. God creates people. People choose to sin, and one of the sins they choose is homosexuality. The good news is that God offers freedom and redemption from sin through His (not “her”) Son, Jesus Christ.

An unrepentant sinner cannot get saved. Which means an unrepentant practicing homosexual who says they’ve gotten saved is going to one day hear the words, “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

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At 3:15 AM, Blogger Robert Bayn said...

A "Reverend", but calls God a "She". That goes against everything the Bible Teaches, when Jesus refers to God as "Our Father", but I would not expect someone like him to understand basic Christian doctrine.

At 7:24 PM, Blogger Neil said...

Well said. White and his ilk have such an "in your face" approach to God and his Word. They've made up their own she-god. Hopefully some will find the truth someday.

At 10:46 AM, Blogger Brian said...

My name is Brian Murphy. I was born and raised in Potomac, Maryland. Through no choice of my own, I am gay. How is one a practicing homosexual anymore than one is a practicing heterosexual?

I get up, go to work during the week and church on the weekends.

I have always been gay and try as I might, I cannot change my orientation.

I have never cheated. I have never abused. I have never murdered.

I choose many things, I simply am gay. I have many sins, my love is not a sin.

In Christ,
Acts 4:19-20

At 9:58 PM, Blogger Ms.Green said...


Your point is taken, and you said it politely and in a spirit of charity, but it does not change what the Bible says.

You have been lied to. You were not born a homosexual. You learned that behavior, it didn't come naturally no matter what you may say, because God clearly indicates that homosexuality is a sin. To say something is a sin and then create someone who has no choice but to do it would be a cruel and illogical thing to do. God is neither cruel nor illogical.

You may be the nicest guy in the world, but your sexuality is not normal and is something you have chosen. The sad part is that, although I don't know your age, it's most likely you've been in this lifestyle for a long time, and you believe it is impossible for you to be heterosexual because you believe the lie that you were born that way.

I've never met a homosexual yet - male or female (and I've known many - including family members) that didn't have a screwed up childhood or at the least a traumatic childhood event that triggered their choice to steer toward same sex relationships. Homosexuality is learned behavior. And until the American Psychological Association was strong armed into removing it, homosexuality was on the list of sexual abnormalities.

I'm not going to convince you of anything, and you aren't going to convince me. I can only hope that there are Christians in your life who understand you and love you enough to lead you to the truth, and not who compromise the Word of God in the name of political correctness.

Thanks for the input. With your charitable attitude, you are welcome to come back if you choose.

At 7:00 AM, Blogger D.Daddio Al-Ozarka said...

"Through no choice of my own, I am gay."

No choice of your own? Come on, honest.

At 7:12 AM, Anonymous tremulantclarity said...

Bryan (and others), I'm going to repost (cut and paste) by remarks from April 27 on Ms. Greens article that deals with homosexuality. I highly recommend reading that article and the ensuing comments, for those who have not.

The following is, by no means, an attempt to “patronize” or attack you or your beliefs outright. It is just a collection of a few thoughts that I had, and I hoped that they might help provide a little more clarity…or at least food for thought.

Human babies are born with absolutely no concept of sexuality. The same is true of all members of Kingdom Animalia.
[Aside: If one is using Biblical principles or those of any metaphysical philosophy or extra-Freudian teleology to approach the issue, then he/she must keep in mind that human beings abide by a higher standard than "the animals" (the rest of 'em, that is). (By the way, anyone who has told you that there is a certain portion of an animal population that is "homosexual" or “born gay” to “check overpopulation” [a popular rationale] or otherwise [even due to environmental pressures and constraints] does not understand what drives animal(istic) sexuality, has totally misrepresented the concepts of nature and/versus nurture, and is unfortunately causing people to be misled. Who ever said this to you needs to review the principles of biodiversity and design, human vs. subhuman physiology, not to mention the basics of population science.) ALL humans exhibit behavior patterns that are based on (at any given moment) some form of moral and/or ethical code and/or belief system (however temporally dynamic). We have beliefs. We have standards. We have principles. We have faith (whether sacred or secular). We have a categorical imperative (at least from time to time [see Immanuel Kant]). However, even the most intelligent of the subhumanoids do not follow, nor are they even able to comprehend, the concepts of moral or ethical code. This is beyond evident in the study of subhuman animal behavior. (This is not to say that there is no proverbial rhyme or reason for any given animal behavior or series thereof, but the actual cognition and understanding of morality and ethics is simply absent. Again, this is beyond evident in the study of subhuman animal behavior.) It is therefore neither relevant nor appropriate to reference subhumanoid behavior as a means of supporting either side of an argument/discussion on the human issue at hand.]

Back to humans…
At birth, there is no sexual attraction (The proof is in the PET scan, among other bodies of evidence). Actual sexual urges (and initially that is all they are: physiological urges) begin when certain gender-specific hormones become active on the appropriate (and adequately matured) organ tissue sites (namely the brain). (Puberty follows shortly after this, and we all know what happens during that little phasic bundle of hormonal onslaught.) It is during this initial stage of hormonal activity that ENVIRONMENTAL reinforcement(s) become(s) most influential. Environmental reinforcements include all sensory (and sensual) stimuli and experiences (familial and peer relationships, social norms, mores, and pressures, crises, etc., etc.). Individual perception and objective-subjective interpretation and evaluation of these items is the final call. This is where a person's choice is at hand. Based on this perception, this interpretation and evaluation, one chooses (at whatever level of conscious directive) to take a step in one direction or the opposite (regarding a single principial item). This is the psychology of life as a series of human experiences (actually, it's just the scratching of the surface of it, but suffice it to say…modus operandi a priori).

Homosexuality is not inborn. It arises as the product of a series of choices (regarding interpretation, evaluation, belief, value, priority, acceptance, rejection, denial, love, hate, worldview, action, inaction, etc.) based on experience. One person may certainly be more prone to such a lifestyle outcome due to situational phenomena or even a few genetic/physiological factors, but no person is born with a sexual desire for the same sex. For more self-evident support (on a purely biological/ natural and logical level) of this conclusion, consider physiology: boys have a penis; girls have a vagina. Homosexuality is less about finding oneself and more about defining oneself (again, at whatever level of conscious directive). It is not something that has defined itself in a person of its own accord (or by any automatic innatism). It is something that a person has defined within him/herself and that a person has defined him/herself by.

I have several gay friends of both sexes and of various ages. More than one of them has confirmed the statement made by the homosexual friend Ms. Green's son: "I wasn't born gay. Nobody is born gay, and anyone who says they were is lying just to make a political statement or to justify or excuse their lifestyle." (not that this holds any authority with you - you don't know these people - but it is a possibility to be considered: that there are those in the homosexual community who acknowledge the choice of their lifestyle).

I, personally, am willing to make one more allowance for those who truly believe that they were born gay: that perhaps they (as anyone can) have merely lost track of, forgotten much of, or otherwise jumbled the memory of their own mental and psychosocial history somehow.

I sincerely hope that this didn't come off as pretentious or chiding, Bryan (and others). I hope you are well.

At 2:53 PM, Blogger Robert Bayn said...

There comes a point when a person either accepts God's word as it is, or they reject it. Sex is defined by the Bible as only to be acceptable in a Marriage between a Woman and a Man, any other versions are sin according to God's Word.

Homosexual attractions do exist, how they come about, no one is really sure. Even if one believes it is inborn, that still not change God's Word. I personally believe Homosexuality is a situational problem, where events in a persons life can lead them to develop Homosexual attractions.

The good news is Homosexual attraction, is just temptation. One can choose to give in, or walk away. Again this comes down to accepting God's word as True, or not.

At 5:09 PM, Blogger Ms.Green said...

The good news is Homosexual attraction, is just temptation. One can choose to give in, or walk away. Again this comes down to accepting God's word as True, or not

Robert, you hit on something critical here. Homosexuality IS a temptation - and more to some than to others. When I was in the deepest and darkest part of my sinful life, before I was saved, I entertained the thought myself, as I had gay girlfriends who seemed to always be having a good time. I flirted with the idea, and with them - but I thank God now that I never went any further. I know now that was just another sin that was tempting me - and sin almost always has appeal. The devil makes sure of that. I also know that most of these former friends are living miserable lives of alcoholism, multiple relationships, drug abuse, anger problems, etc. etc.

I have friends today who struggle with this temptation, and they have to make a concerted effort to avoid situations that would allow them to give in to it. I don't struggle with it at all. However, I have other temptations that are just as strong that I have to stay away from and use caution around as well.

If sin wasn't so tempting, after all, no one would give in to it.

At 12:41 PM, Blogger Brian said...

I can't tell from the comments on what dates they were posted... I hope it hasn't been too long. I tried checking back for awhile, I guess I haven't been checking often enough.

To shed a little light on myself so you don't have to speculate:

I'm 21 years-old. I'm still not exactly sure what "the lifestyle" is so I can't tell you how long I've been in "it" (or if I'm even in it at all). What exactly is the straight lifestyle that you are presumably in? From what I've seen there a variety of different lifestyles ranging from Hugh Heffner to John Paul II and Paris Hilton to Mother Teresa.

I was raised in the suburbs with two parents (a mother and a father). My dad is a patent attorney, my mom was a social worker before I was born, stayed at home to raise me, and went back to work for a Christian organization as I got older. My father taught me baseball and basketball but our favorite was football (he was a kicker in high school before he was injured).

When I was 6 my parents had another child... my younger sister. We take lots of family vacations. I certainly didn't have a screwed up childhood or a traumatic event. So I'm happy to be the first person for you to meet (er... hear from I suppose is more accurate).

Growing up in a conservative church I always heard that being gay was wrong. I dated some girls in middle school and high school (nothing to serious of course!) but there was always a sense of "not quite right."

Growing up I did not know any gay people. In fact, when I was in middle school and my dad's law firm hired a gay employee and he mentioned it to me, I remember not even really knowing what that was.

It was not until mid-high school that I seriously considered I might be gay. Having heard that this was sinful, I sought to lead a pure life. I researched the "causes" and "cures" for homosexuality. I made sure to monitor my thoughts and actions. And I continued to pursue relationships with females (usually from my church, but occasionally from school).

It wasn't until I was 18 (only 3 years ago) that I was finally able to recognize that being gay, though I had never acted upon it in anyway, was a part of me. It was about that same time that I began to understand God's Word more fully.

This whole time I had been praying for a change...I wasn't expecting what I got. I realized that the Bible does not condemn being gay, told as I was to the contrary. When I actually examined the passages in question, what I found was startling... there is no condemnation of being gay. Revisiting old prejudices and carefully examining God's word should not be suspect... in fact, only by doing such can we truly honor God... His word is serious stuff. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 tells us "Examine everything carefully, hold fast to that which is good."

I have not been lied to. I have listened to the Holy Spirit which Christ has sent me. I have examined God's Holy word. And I have found as my ultimate comforter, in a world that too often misunderstands and rejects, the saving grace of Jesus.

I am the only one that has lived my life, and I have know that being gay is a part of me which I did not chose. I know that God loves me and affirms me. And in troubling times, I turn to the words of Peter and John in Acts...

"Judge for yourself whether it is right in God's sight whether to obey you rather than God. As for us, we can not stop speaking about what we have seen and heard."

It is in that spirit that I come here to share my story with you (as it appears to be one different than others you have heard) and to engage in spirit-filled dialogue with you.

I do not set about to convince you of anything or change your mind on matter. I only come to understand you more and to share myself with you. I am confident that any change that needs to occur (in either one of us) will come naturally. And I am sure that we will be mutually blessed.

In Christ,

At 12:52 PM, Blogger Brian said...


I think that too often this discussion centers around causality and changeability.

What I thought I said, and I hope this wasn't misunderstood, is that I am gay through no choice of my own. Whether that means--biology, hormones, the environment, something else--I do not presume to know (in fact, I think it is very likely different for different people).

All I know is that this is my reality.

The question now becomes, what do I do with this reality and why?

Rather than looking at choices or causes or cures or bandages, can we ask, "Is being gay a sin?" I invite you to join into a n open-minded and spirit-guided period of discernment regarding this issue.

Why? Because it is estimated that there are 8 million gay and lesbian Americans. Because I and others like me testify that there is little we did to choose this and little we can do to change it (even gay Christians who believe it is a sin acknowledge these facts). And most importantly, because every day 4 gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender youth will kill themselves after being rejected by their families, their communities, and their churches.

When our beliefs have such dire consequences, should we not be certain that we are holding fast to the proper ones?

And so I hope to begin this discussion.... Why do we believe that God's gay and lesbian children are sick and sinful?


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